From the Mueller report to the impeachment trial, it would be easy to mistake Donald Trump’s first term for pure chaos. However, Pulitzer Prize–winning Washington Post reporter Carol Leonnig and White House Bureau Chief Philip Rucker believe there is a pattern and meaning to the daily disorder. Drawing on their deep and unmatched sources throughout Washington, their book A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump’s Testing of America delves behind the scandal and destruction to deliver one of the most fascinating accounts of Trump’s first term. Carol and Philip join ABC Radio National’s Fran Kelly to discuss their first-rate political exposé.

Presented by ARA.

Supported by the University of Sydney.

Carol Leonnig (International)

Carol Leonnig

Carol Leonnig is a Pulitzer Prize–winning reporter who has worked at The Washington Post since 2000. She won the 2015 Pulitzer Prize for her work on security failures and misconduct inside the Secret Service. She was part of a Post team that was awarded the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for revealing the US government's secret, broad surveillance of Americans through the disclosures of Edward Snowden. She is a three-time winner of the George Polk Award for investigative reporting. She reports on Donald Trump's presidency and investigates Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. Along with Philip Rucker, she is the author of A Very Stable Genius. Carol is also an on-air contributor to NBC News and MSNBC.

Philip Rucker (International)

Philip Rucker

Philip Rucker is the White House Bureau Chief at The Washington Post, leading its coverage of President Trump and his administration. He is co-author with Carol Leonnig of A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump's Testing of America. Rucker and a team of Post reporters won the Pulitzer Prize and George Polk Award for their reporting on Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election. Rucker joined the Post in 2005 and has previously covered Congress, the Obama White House, and the 2012 and 2016 presidential campaigns. He serves as an on-air political analyst for NBC News and MSNBC, and graduated from Yale University with a degree in history.

Fran Kelly (Australian)

Fran Kelly

Fran Kelly is an Australian radio presenter, current affairs journalist and political correspondent who has hosted the ABC's Radio National program Breakfast since March 2005.